Perfide – “Can’t you be proud of your own culture?”

Out of the depths of the Dutch underground Black Metal scene crawls Perfide. With a basis of old school Norwegian Black Metal mixed with an atypical bass-oriented sound, the band impressed with their debut album ‘De Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden’. Time to question founder and bass player Geteisem about the band and their unique sound and lyrical themes. This interview took place live and digital in Dutch and was translated to English by TheWhisperer, the original version can be found here.

Thank you for your time! To get things started, how would you describe the differences between the earlier work you did and the recently released debut album ‘De Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden’ and latest EP ‘Ultieme Vrijheid: Los van Christelijke Ketenen’?
Looking at the demo compared to the newest work then I would say that we found our style. If you listen carefully, we were still searching for a direction on the demo, trying to find what we wanted exactly, and this started to take shape on the 7” (split with Hellevaerder). The debut represents our style clearly, and the recent EP is a confirmation of that sound. 

You founded the band in 2017, and after some changes in the line-up the band now consists of five members I believe. Guitar player V. Xul has been part of the band for quite some time now, and his previous experience in veteran Dutch Black Metal bands such as Funeral Winds and Liar of Golgotha asks for some attention. How did your collaboration in Perfide materialize?
That’s correct, the current line-up consists of Geteisem on bass, V. Xul and RoacH on guitar, A. on vocals and L. on drums. I met V. Xul at a show, I believe it was Veneration of the Dead, where I was talking to a mutual friend. V. Xul joined the conversation and that’s how we got into contact. He seemed like a relaxed Black Metal guy and that’s how our friendship started.

At that point I had already started Perfide. I was kicked out of a Death Metal band and that pissed me off quite a bit. So I decided to make the music I really wanted to make, and the conclusion was that that was Black Metal. From that I started writing bass lines, since I’m a bassist, and then started composing the songs. I then asked V. Xul to join the band. At first he was hesitant and didn’t want to commit, but in the end he joined and that’s how our collaboration started. He is really my sparring partner in the band. In principle I write the majority of the music and he contributes ideas, about the cover, lyrics and of course he also mixes everything. And also not unimportantly, he designed the band logo as well.

Considering the origins of the band I would like to go straight on to the meaning of the band name. Perfide means something like faithless, false, foul, treacherous. Did that band name arise from that moment of aggression? How does the band name relate to the music and lyrics?
I had already started writing but didn’t have a fitting name yet. Since day one I knew that I wanted to start a Black Metal band with Dutch lyrics, and there was no way I would stray from that vision. I wanted the band name to be catchy, unique and with a strong meaning. Because I was subscribed to a language magazine I came across this word and thought, this exactly embodies the essence of what I want to portray with the band.

It’s safe to call the style of Perfide atypical with the realms of Black Metal. Are there influences that lead you in writing music? 
That would definitely be 90’s Black Metal from Scandinavia. Think of Mayhem’s ‘De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas’, Tsjuder, old Emperor, Lord Belial ‘Enter the Moonlight Gate’, those types of bands. Originally I also wanted to sound like those bands, but I found out that that simply wasn’t my writing style. And why force something instead of doing something that grows more natural. This is what came out, it sounds great, so why not use it and continue on this path. With all due respect, a lot of bands copy and paste and I’m not afraid to state that we found our own sound and that’s something we can be proud of.

To continue on the far from conventional Black Metal: do you notice that people have a hard time with that, in terms of reactions within the scene?
Yes, I did notice. Definitely when looking for new band members. We have gone through quite some line-up changes and the reasons why members left are diverse. But finding a second guitar player proved to be a challenge. Because V. Xul plays the guitar and I play the bass, we have had a hard time finding someone despite the fact that in principle there should be many guitar players out there.

Do you think that is because of the style, or because the two of you have a clear but different vision and are thereby quite selective of potential candidates.
That does play a role, we are looking for dedicated members that can contribute to what we do. Also, approaching people during Covid turned out to be difficult, which made everything more complicated.

The most recent EP is a continuation of the style of the album and the songs were written in a similar time period. Do you think you have found the formula of Perfide
The style on the debut is our style, and the EP is a confirmation of that. The new material will have elements that are more extreme and atypical, but I’m not afraid to say this is our style. It’s all or nothing, take it or leave it.

How is a Perfide song born? Both in terms of the music and in terms of lyrics. Do you start with a lyrical idea, or with a riff?
That is not something I want to reveal too much of, but you could say it starts instrumentally by writing riffs with the thematics in the back of our minds. 

Since the earliest day many Black Metal bands have written lyrics about the history of their respective countries. That also applies to the Dutch Black Metal scene. But the approach to combine stories about the dark side of the prosperous past of The Netherlands, mixed with a Satanic interpretation of historically accurate happenings is fairly unique. How did  you come to this subject, what drew you to the topic?
The theme was something I already had in mind, it’s not as if that came later. Since that was determined I started looking for information on the topic. For the 7” split I started reading about the synod of Dordrecht, since that event really took place (TheWhisperer – In Catholic and orthodox jargon a synod is a meeting of bishops).I read about what it was, what happened, how it came to be. I then made a diabolical or Satanic variant to it.

Not entirely unimportant to mention, one of the biggest sources of inspiration for these matters and for Perfide was the Fluisterwoud record ‘Langs Galg & Rad’. Not only to have Dutch lyrics, but also to carve into a dark part of our history. It’s not always clear in their case, but it certainly inspired me to a great extent. For me, it’s one of the best Dutch Black Metal records ever recorded. When I started listening to Black Metal this album had just been released and the album really hit home with me. There’s always a few of those albums, and for me this was clearly one of them.

There are several reasons why Perfide sings in Dutch. A large part of that inspiration is from ‘Langs Galg en Rad’. What happened there in terms of vocals, lyrics, the filth in a track like ‘Plaeghdraegher’ and how they describe it. That is the atmosphere I always envisioned but didn’t have the right people or musical capacities for until now. Furthermore, Dutch is a beautiful language and not enough people realize that. A lot of people at the time thought it was an ugly and uninteresting language, and decided to sing in English. Why not in your native language? There’s also plenty of Norwegian bands that have Norwegian lyrics. Why does everything have to be in English and can’t you be proud of your own culture? If the listeners really want to know what it all means they can just contact the band. So every band should decide for themselves, but for Perfide it’s only Dutch. Finally, we are of a strong conviction that a theme that deals with the Lowlands demands the Dutch language to correctly transmit the essence.

Many bands choose to focus on local folklore, but you take a much broader context of a whole age or era. Did you end up in this time of the Republic because it had so many dark sides?
Mostly because the theme is underrepresented. We came to that conclusion when I discussed possible themes with V. Xul, who also wrote ‘The Encyclopedia of Dutch Black Metal’. I wanted to do something unique and when I saw a documentary on the Republic I thought, this is it. Especially since the Netherlands were extremely religious at the time it made sense to give it our own twist. 

On the most recent EP you dive into a possibly even more remarkable subject, slavery and the annual celebration of abolishment of slavery, ketikoti. How did you end up on this topic?
There are several reasons. One is that it has never been used as a topic, at least not in the context in which we use it. The topic was in the news all the time, and seemed interesting so we decided to give it a place in our lyrics. But I want to stress we are not a woke band, we purely picked it because it’s current with a dark side of our past, but the choice of the theme has little to do with the actual celebration of abolishment of slavery. The Horned Lord plays a prominent role in our lyrics, giving the two real life characters the powers to break the chains of Christianity, the religion of the oppressor. 

Is that a different approach to writing compared to the album, which offers more of a satanic interpretation of history? 
This time the lyrics were written by our vocalist A. while on the debut I wrote them. In the future the lyrics are intended to be part of the band process. I also want to stress that Perfide is not a one-man band, at least not anymore. For future releases A. will continue to write the lyrics so that vocal patterns will flow even better, but also to enhance the involvement. A. already performed the session vocals for the split 7” and has been a band member since the debut. But at that time the lyrics for the debut were already written, and because the theme had to very specifically show the vision of Perfide, I held on to that vision. In addition, the debut was meant to be dedicated to two deceased friends, Nick Gorkink and Pim Voormeulen. So for the debut, the lyrics had to be exactly the way they were intended. 

Three of your songs deal with Maasniel. Tell me, what intrigues you about this?
We partially originate from Maasniel, an area in the province of Limburg. ‘De Molenaar van Maasniel’ (translated: ‘The Miller of Maasniel’) is a song on the demo, of which the lyrics are a shortened version of a saga from Limburg. The miller yelled and cursed which fueled the rumours that he was worshiping the devil. This song is related to ‘De Synode van Maasniel’ which appeared on the 7” split with Hellevaerder. If you read those lyrics it tells about a bard, about an innkeeper which explains the inn on the cover. The cover, illustrated by Kyle Messick, also shows the miller and his companions and tells the story of the miller. That is a story I made up myself and serves as a prequel to ‘De Molenaar van Maasniel’. ‘De Herbergier van Maasniel’ (‘The Innkeeper of Maasniel’), which appeared on the debut, tells the story after that of the miller, after the synod has failed.

For the lyrics you undoubtedly delved deep into history books and archives. The miller of Maasniel is a clear example of suspected devil worship. Do you think devil worship was a part of the Republic?
I would say the chances are probably very slim considering the number of Christians and how large and strong the influence of the church was. If there was devil worship they would never speak about it. But it is possible that strange behavior was marked as demonic possession.

At this point I should thank Gunther Theys of Ancient Rites, for instance for the title ‘Schuttersgilde’. In general he helped a lot with information and direction where to look for accurate history of the matter. We once met at a concert and started talking about this subject. Besides that, Ancient Rites is a band that I musically and thematically looked up to. There also isn’t a band that sounds like them, especially on an album like ‘Fatherland’.

Many foul things took place in the history of the Republic. Do you have an idea what theme you want to address on the next release? 
We certainly found a good theme. But that’s a secret for now. The only thing I can share is that it’s a topic that hasn’t been sung about. I also want to stress that we are not limited to the history of the Republic or The Netherlands. Our line-up now also features a member from Flanders (a region in Belgium), and I consider Perfide more of a Lowlands band with matching thematics.

What are the plans for the future of the band? Can we for instance expect live activity?
Sporadic live shows certainly belong to the possibilities in the future. Other than that, we started writing the next album.

Difficult question: What are your five favorite Black Metal albums of all time?
These are the albums that have meant a lot to me on an emotional and spiritual level: 

1 Mayhem – De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas
2 Fluisterwoud – Langs Galg en Rad
3 Lord Belial – Enter The Moonlight Gate
4 Dødsengel – Mirium Occultum
5 Marduk – Heaven Shall Burn….When We Are Gathered

Belphegor – Lucifer Incestus should also be part of the list, hard to choose!

Besides influences on Perfide and separate of any genre or time, what albums have convinced you recently or do you have on heavy rotation?
Walghinge from Flanders with the album ‘Primordiaal Verlangen’ and also Vaal with ‘Visioen van het verborgen land’. I keep coming back to ‘De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas’, that album remains a blueprint and masterpiece. The only thing that comes close to me is Mare from Norway, but they have given it their own twist. Especially the song ‘Sorte Messe’, which is in their live set but was never released outside a live version on Soundcloud, clearly has those ‘De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas’ influences. Their album ‘Ebony Tower’ is a bit more experimental, for example the start of ‘Nightbound’ with effects on the bass guitar. But in my opinion their ‘Throne of the Thirteenth Witch’ EP is exactly how Black Metal should sound. The first time I ever saw them was at the Sathanas in Gloriam festival, that was a truly impressive show. Bands I would still like to see live? Maybe an integral  ‘Langs Galg en Rad’ performance by Fluisterwoud. But perhaps some things should be left just as they are. 

To wrap it all up, how do you look back on your years in Black Metal and the evolution of the style? 
I entered the scene in about 2004, about the time that Fluisterwoud released ‘Langs Galg en Rad’. True Black Metal bands from that time like Funeral Winds have always remained strong, and in general that’s a band I respect highly. But without naming any bands, there are a lot of bands these days that call themselves Black Metal but aren’t really. It’s a worldwide phenomenon, seeing bands appear where you can question how it can go by the name of Black Metal. As a whole the atmosphere has changed a lot too, concerts are a lot more relaxed and that isn’t necessarily a good development, things can be a little bit more rough. The sound (shrillness and tonality) of Black Metal is often used to indicate the style, but whether it musically should be labeled Black Metal is a matter of fierce debate. Although presentation and general attitude often show whether bands are genuine about it.

With that we come to the end. Is there anything else that hasn’t been discussed yet that you would like to mention? 
Listen to real Black Metal and honour The Horned Lord!