I was pointed out by my The Whispering Darkness companion on a demo I should check out, it was also available on cassette tape, but only in 13 copies. In other words: hurry up or you’ll be too late. Fortunately, I was not too late and was able to be surprised by ‘Metastasis Dei’, a demo with roots deep in classic Black Metal but whose branches reach into very different musical worlds. All in all, enough reasons for me to put some questions to MVG, the musician behind this band…
Hi MVG, before we get started and together dig into this new beast you have created, I am curious to know what drove you to this. Can you take us back with you to the moment you first started to play with the idea of starting Bok?
Hello Felix. The idea of starting Bok came to me not too long ago actually. I was working on another project and got stuck, really frustratingly stuck. At the point of realizing moving forward would probably mean a lot of damage to my guitars I, and this may sound stupid, wrote down a bunch of rules for myself to obey when creating music. My own commandments to rigorously follow and live by. Like for example, every riff must work standalone and an arrangement may only contain a maximum number of instruments or tracks. This helped me not to lose myself in making things too big and, as a result of that, not to create incoherent bullshit that completely lost the original intention. Quite soon, maybe 8 months ago, this new way of working resulted in abandoning the other project completely and starting fresh, which marked the birth of Bok.
Now that we have discussed the band’s earliest stages, let’s take a few steps forward. The music to me sounds both regressive in nature, as it is based on quite recognizable riffs, as well as fresh in rather modern approach to the genre. While the riffs are quite traditional, the guitar tone is rather harrowing and slightly dissonant. How would you describe your sound on ‘Metastasis Dei’ yourself?
That’s actually a tough question to answer. I’m not deliberately creating or chasing a particular sound. I do think that a big part of the guitar tone has to do with the amp I use. I play on an Orange amp, which is not the most obvious choice for metal I guess, but I really like the sound and response of Orange. With regards to dissonance, I’m not looking for it nor am I using many dissonants in riffing or chords. Since I don’t have a theoretical background in music I just try things until it sounds right in my head. This may sometimes result in unconventional stuff and perhaps dissonance. Also the combination of not very precisely tuned guitars and layered synths may cause it but also, I’m afraid, it is just a lack of talent and perhaps a bit sloppy dubbing.
In the title track of the demo there is a strong religious component. I was not able to exactly figure out what the lyrics are about, but the Hildegard von Bingen-like Gregorian chanting and church bells do at least emphasize that feeling. Also the covers of the tapes were made out of old Bible pages. Can you take us with you in the conceptual idea behind ‘Metastasis Dei’?
Although the demo is not a concept piece as such, the main theme clearly is an anti christian, or better, anti abrahamic one. Especially the, or their arrogance of claiming a monopoly on truth and morality, just to make it fit their own agendas of greed, abuse and extortion, triggers a lot of anger in me. This is also reflected in the band name. Bok is the Dutch word for a male goat, and in one of the Bible gospels it says “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats“. This is a clear example of this arrogant behavior, the idea to have the power to decide for all who is right and who is wrong, which is still very visible today. A religious elite with an insatiable hunger for power and possession, suppressing the sheep with fear and false promises. Let me be forever with the goats and proudly go against them. Thinking of it, I have always been much more of an opposer rather than a worshiper. I receive energy from fighting what I feel is wrong rather than creating or worshiping what I feel is right. Lyrically the demo combines the above with, let’s call it a good dose of voyeuristic sadism. The two combined, fighting and publishing, make a strong combination.
Speaking of which, you don’t have to know Latin to be able to translate or understand the title of your demo, ‘Metastasis Dei’. But I am quite sure there is more to it than a literal translation…
I think the literal translation does cover it all. Metastasis Dei means the malignant spread of the aforementioned beliefs. Like I said, even today, it sickens, paralyzes and terrorizes millions of people just to safeguard their wealth and to cover for their perversions. It spreads in the minds of individuals just as it still spreads throughout families, generations, societies and so on. A true multidimensional sickness.
Continuing on the previous two questions a bit. You have self-released this demo in only 13 physical copies. Each of those copies have a unique and hand-crafted cover, all of them are similar but you have used 13 different portraits. Who are these people and how do they fit in the story that you are telling?
Those gentlemen are 13 former preachers of the reformed church of The Netherlands. They are 13 randomly picked catalysts of the cancer. They are the Metastasis Dei incarnate.
Not quite the most exciting questions perhaps, but trying to understand a little more where Bok is coming from. We already discussed a few things that inspired you non-musically and I already mentioned that the music itself sounds rather schizophrenic, founded in the old Black Metal tradition with a distinct contemporary sound. Strictly keeping it within the Extreme Metal frame work, what do you consider your main musical influences for the creation of what became Bok?
Schizofrenic, nice, thanks! But to the question, influences are many. Not all of them may be audible in Bok, but they are of major importance to me and therefore definitely have an influence on the music I make. Let’s start with maybe the best black metal band and album ever, Hünengrab im Herbst by Nagelfar. It’s fast, aggressive, dynamic, it’s just everything at once. Absolute masterpiece. Then also Marduk has a special place in my heart. I think Panzer Division got me really into black metal. From there it’s a logical step to Funeral Mist. Daniel Rostén is an absolute master of creating eerie atmospheres and crafting unique pieces from unlikely sound sources. Then some others I listen to a lot: Carpathian Forest (and automatically Nattefrost), Ritual Death, Archgoat, Sargeist, Urgehal, Darkened Nocturn Slaughtercult and many more.
Within the music you create with Bok there is a lot of variety to discern. While the core may be blistering Black Metal, you are clearly influenced from various other genres and musical movements outside the usual metal spectrum. More than once I am reminded of things like Christian Death or even Post-Rock/-Punk and then there is this lengthy, brooding electronic closing track. What would you mention as your main sources of inspirations outside the usual metal context?
Haha nice, you’re not the first to hear post punk influences in Bok. And even though I honestly don’t hear it myself, it does make sense since I do like this genre quite a lot. The sheer grimness and despair that’s always in there, the minimalism, while still experimenting with synths and less common instruments and the drone-like repetition is usually working very well for me. And apparently, it sneaks into my own creations. The last track of the demo is an example of drones and repetition. I can spend hours on building upon a single theme or sound. I can stretch such an idea forever while creating just enough variation to keep things interesting and exciting for myself. The challenge I face with those tracks usually is to decide when they are ready and, as a consequence, going overboard and killing the vibe. That’s why a lot of them end up in the bin. ‘As Black Willows Spread, The Pale Widows Cry’ being one of the rare exceptions to this.
Besides Bok you are also in Göll and Experimentum, both too are bands that tend to push the boundaries of the Black Metal genre, yet at the same time they are rooted in it too – much like Bok. Would you consider yourself a creative musician who likes to look past walls and borders? Can you, in general, describe your way of creating music?
I do think I am a creative musician and I definitely look past the, what you call borders of black metal. But I do not purposefully listen to other genres just for the sake of blending it into my own music. Speaking of that, in general, whenever I start doing something purposefully, with a goal in mind, it’s likely to fail because of the self imposed boundaries. Most of my tracks are born from coincidence. It can be by stumbling upon a specific sound, or a rhythm or even just a word or sentence I pick up somewhere. From there I slowly start building. I never experienced that apparently magical and romantic moment of writing and finishing a track in a few hours. I need time. And lots of it.
I can imagine things like this do not happen on a conscious level but instead go largely unnoticed. But, if you think about it, do you recognize anything from what you have done with either Göll or Experimentum in this new musical creation?
No I don’t think so. But, being a limited guitarist, I have no doubt the riffing may show resemblance at times. The big difference between Bok and the other two is that Bok is purely my creation, while the others are the result of combining two minds. The result of writing while also finding consensus versus just doing whatever I feel is right, will always yield different results. It’s not a matter of one being better or one being more right than the other. Just different. But that’s only my, biased truth.
Bok is a one-man band, is this something that you feel comfortable with? In both your other musical endeavors you operate as a duo, although none of these two bands are very prolific, don’t you miss being able to discuss musical opinions, directions or decisions with a like-minded musician?
Bok is a one-man band for this exact reason. Not having any discussion with anyone is what I feel very comfortable with. And this definitely comes at a price. Not being able to get any feedback or being challenged has a major impact on the output. I may completely miss great opportunities while at the same be deaf to very bad stuff I record and therefore make very stupid decisions. But in the end, they are my decisions, and I’m not accountable to anyone but myself.
Although your musical activities go back to the turn of the millennium, with only a handful of releases you have not really been all over the place – unlike some of your peers. In our short conversation prior to this interview you even described Göll as a “beast that decides its own pace”. So, can I conclude that you choose quality over quantity and prefer to focus on one thing at a time?
Yes, that together with the mentioned challenge to finish things. This can be because of getting stuck but also by losing interest. I have to really feel what I’m doing and then it’s done when it’s done. Not any time sooner.
While slowly working to the end of this interview, let’s continue a little on this subject – it really keeps intriguing me. You have started your first band, as far as I know, in 2002, that means that you are active in the Dutch Black Metal scene for over two decades now. How do you look upon our native scene at the moment? And how would you describe its development over those twenty plus years?
Even though I have been creating black metal for over 20 years, and frequently go out to see bands live, I do not consider myself part of the scene. Apart from a very few, I don’t have and maintain contacts in this scene. Let’s just say I’m not the most social person on earth. Looking at the scene from the outside in, it’s obvious “we” produce a lot of great bands and music. Personally I do think that more and more Dutch black metal is getting a bit too shiny, artsy and beautiful. I miss the will to do harm. The real aggression of for example Funeral Winds, Sammath or Wrok. A good thing I feel is that today the scene is a bit less toxic. Twenty some years ago I believe people were more into judging others. This black metal nerd gestapo checking who’s true and who’s posing, seems to be silenced. On the other hand, nowadays we have to deal with, let’s call it “social media black metal”. You know them, the people spending their days sharing pictures of Per Ohlin and jerking off to the ‘Pale Swordsman’.
As already mentioned, you have released your demo in only 13 physical copies. That is either something that may not really show great ambition or it is a well-considered choice of a journey with modest steps forward. I’m guessing (and hoping) the latter, but that makes it an interesting question as to what your next steps with Bok will be. In any case, ‘Metastasis Dei’ is a first hurdle taken and, to me, tastes like more…
First of all, thanks! And it definitely is my ambition to destroy your appetite many times more. The 13 copies I don’t see as a lack of ambition but rather just as a starting point. I had, and have, no idea what to expect. And honestly, like I said earlier, with Bok I don’t really want to expect anything. Also, those tapes are hand made, which was a lot of work, and after 13 copies I really was fed up with it! I’m still surprised they sold out so quickly. For the next release I may increase the number a bit. Let’s see.
I am definitely looking forward to any new material. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions and giving us a bit of extra context to this new musical vehicle of yours. Last words are for you…
Many thanks for your interest in Bok! Offering me this opportunity, at this early stage, is special and for that you have my eternal gratitude! We’ll keep in touch!
