With the release of ‘III: The Great Light Above’ Wesenwille delivered one of the strongest albums of 2022. It presented the culmination of the band’s journey into dissonant Black Metal that once started heavily inspired by Deathspell Omega and Svartidauði but been slowly molded into a unique sound over their past albums. Now that some time since its release has gone by, it felt like a moment to reflect and look ahead. Mastermind R. Schmidt gladly agreed to offer The Whisperer and FelixS extensive insights into the journey that led to the current album, what drives the band and what the future holds for Wesenwille.
I think it’s fair to say that the idea to form Wesenwille was inspired by bands like Svartidauði and Deathspell Omega. Since I’m not a musician myself, I’m curious how that works. I imagine you guys listening to the record together and what happens then? Is it like, “I really want to make a record exactly like that”. Or is it more like, “oh I wish they had done that”. In other words, how did you go from inspiration to the songs we find for instance on the first album?
It’s more than fair to claim that the musical approach of Wesenwille was inspired by acts like Svartidauði, DSO and the like. Following some recommendations by former Wesenwille bass player M., I got absolutely hooked on certain bands from Iceland and France. ‘Flesh Cathedral’ by Svartidauði and Svart Crown’s ‘Profane’ album are good examples. I had been listening quite a bit to albums like DSO’s ‘Si Monvmentvm Reqvires, Circvmspice’ and ‘Paracletus’ as well, but otherwise I wasn’t too deep into that dissonant side of the black metal genre back then. Yet. Ultimately these bands ended up making a huge impact on how I perceive the genre nowadays.
Somewhere around 2013 the three of us (M., D. and I) decided to start a new project to incorporate a bunch of ideas that we had, but didn’t put to use in our various other bands. We initiated Wesenwille with the idea of it becoming a power trio; a guitarist, a bass player and a drummer, with the string workers alternating vocals. The idea was to give each instrument room to shine by getting them to move to the foreground in different sections of the songs. We also wanted to get creative with balancing dissonance and consonance and alternative chord progressions. Lastly, we envisioned taking more freedom in the use of tempo changes and varying time signatures, which one would not encounter all that often in a context that is still very much centred around black metal.
While bands like Svartidauði, DSO, Svart Crown, Akercocke, Voices, Imperial Triumphant and Ulcerate (the list goes on) were important inspirations for us to decide to get started with Wesenwille, we never tried to sound exactly like any existing band. There’s plenty of acts doing that, if you ask me (perhaps even too many?). Think of it more as taking inspiration from existing acts to create something new, which in the end I’m confident we did already with the first album.
As we were focusing most of our efforts on different main projects (Weltschmerz, White Oak & more) back then, we decided to take our sweet time with Wesenwille as a side project. M. (bass guitar) and I started writing the first track, which took quite a while and many, many iterations before turning into what we now know as ‘The Churning Masses’. I recently found an old version of this track, which was a great reminder of how vastly different this track could’ve turned out! Anyways, we worked on the music mostly separately, then we’d send one another new versions and discuss them in person. When we had a full track that approached making sense as a whole, we moved into the rehearsal space to play through it with the three of us. Afterwards we would remove or add sections and repeat the process until we were satisfied. There was a lot of iterating and killing darlings for sure, especially since I was definitely more comfortable writing relatively consonant atmospheric black at the time. The more dissonant and technical aspects only came by exploring them through the writing process for Wesenwille. Along the line of creating the first album, the song writing process more and more became something I took the lead in, although bouncing ideas off mostly M. and refining the songs together is something that continued until the album was fully written. In the end we recorded the first album using our own means back in 2017, about four years after we started writing. M. and I were both investing in proper recording gear at the time, and we were also trying out different things together and learning as much as we could with the recordings for projects like Iron Harvest and Weltschmerz. While we also wanted to keep the mixing in-house initially, we ended up having it done by JB (Dool, Ûngrûn, ex-Aborted) who left a major mark on the sound of the record as a whole. He was instrumental in creating the modern black metal sound of early Wesenwille.
Although the main musical inspirations seem to be clear, the music of Wesenwille does not sound like an exact copy or clone. Where do you think the main difference between your own music and that of your main inspirators lies?
I think this is due to the fact that Wesenwille is ultimately an amalgamation of many different influences and musical experiences. These go beyond just the various dissonant black metal bands we’ve known throughout the years. My own background before Wesenwille was mostly in the atmospheric black metal subgenre, but then amongst us we also have worked with other subgenres within black metal, and also the death and doom metal and even classical music genres. Incorporating influences from all of these is what makes Wesenwille it’s very own thing. This is also one of the aspects of Wesenwille I personally appreciate the most – the freedom to incorporate whatever influences come to mind without worrying too much if it’s either too far out or the opposite.
I wanted to talk about the progress from one album to another. I think every next Wesenwille album so far has been building on the previous, but also changed the formula somewhat. Does that come naturally or is it rather by design? And where do you think lies the main difference between the three albums?
For me the writing of a new album generally begins with looking back at what worked well, or perhaps not as well, on previous records I’ve been involved in (Wesenwille or other). Sometimes inspiration hits and I’ll start writing songs randomly, without an overarching plan in mind, which in due time could develop into a new record. Or there’ll be some unused material left from a previous record to build on. Other times I’ll start out writing a new album with a very specific idea in mind for each track, or even the album as a whole (this happened mostly with ‘III’). But so many things tend to change during the writing process, that it becomes almost impossible to fully adhere to the initial direction for any album. In the end, each album does indeed build on experiences gained with the previous, and variation naturally creeps in during the writing process.
The main differences between albums are of various sources. ‘I’ and ‘II’ had the same producer (JB), which tied them together sound-wise to a large degree. Yet these two albums present vastly differing song structures and lengths, along with me taking up the bass guitar and all vocals on ‘II’, and the use of different instruments, amplifiers, recording gear, knowledge of how to apply everything, etc. Also, ‘II’ tended more towards death metal at times than ‘I’ did. ‘III’ on the other hand was written to feel continuous from beginning to end, and focused even more on building oppressive atmospheres than the previous albums. Yet it has plenty of moments that strongly remind me of both ‘I’ and ‘II’ as well. All in all, listening back to these albums (and the new material) often makes me think: “Ah, that’s typically one of those Wesenwille moments”. There’s quite some continuity in the material, some by design and some not.
On the lyrical side of things, is there something of a common denominator that ties your work together? Where do you get your main inspiration from, other than a musical one?
Wesenwille has always dealt with the transformative influence of modernity – regarding social, economic and technological developments – on human strife. How do the goals we pursue – wealth, social status, knowledge, longevity, and the way we perceive one another – change with the times? Main sources of inspiration for me have been my own experiences and interpretations of what life is like in modern times, at times extrapolated to a larger scale. These ideas play a central role on each Wesenwille record, although I wouldn’t say any album has been intended as a purely conceptual piece. Each track should be able to stand its own ground, even out of context.
Not everyone may know what the word Wesenwille means. Can you elaborate, and how does the band name tie in with the music and theme?
This is a question that keeps coming back in interviews, which I understand well, as Wesenwille is not a word often encountered in daily life! Wesenwille is a term coined by sociologist Ferdinand Tönnies, alongside its opposing concept of Kürwille, which he postulated in his book Gemeinschaft & Gesellschaft (Community and Society, 1887). These terms describe the different types of will (Wesenwille – ‘natural’ or ‘essential’ will, and Kürwille – ‘rational’ or ‘arbitrary’ will) that drive humans to form the social constructs of communities and societies. The general idea being that communities are relatively tight-knit structures formed by family bonds, solidarity and tradition, as opposed to the larger societies that find more basis in rationality and self-interest.
In recent years the band has shrunk back to a duo, with drummer David Schermann (Wrang, ex-Grafjammer), and since last year you are the sole driving force behind Wesenwille. Can you take us with you in that development and tell a bit more how the whole process around the band has changed now that you are the sole band member?
The whole process around the band has not changed much, actually. It was already the case with ‘II’ and ‘III’ that I wrote all music and lyrics, so the creative process remains mostly the same. While D. stays on as live member, I decided to record future material with another drummer, which I’m sure will bring some new influences to the table.
There is a good chance somewhere around the globe someone is listening to a Wesenwille song or album at the moment. What do you hope they are experiencing, and has that changed over the course of the albums?
Even after 10 years, I feel that the intention with Wesenwille has remained pretty continuous: to create an intense musical experience, one in which the tropes of the black metal genre are neither abandoned nor taken as laws to adhere to. The execution of the music changes over the years with experience, but the general idea remains the same. I most appreciate it when listeners take the time to work their way through all three albums, maybe even see a live show, and look at how it all clings together. Perhaps listening to Wesenwille inspires another to create their own interpretation of extreme music, as other bands have done for me. That’d be most rewarding.
In the last years you have had quite a few shows, both in The Netherlands and abroad. Are there bands you would love to play with, or maybe a show or festival that you consider your dream gig?
Definitely! As it turns out we’ll be performing alongside Imperial Triumphant soon, which have been an influence from the get-go. Other than that, I’d be excited to play some more shows in France, where there is quite some following for Wesenwille through Les Acteurs de l’Ombre (LADLO), the label that released ‘II’, ‘III’ and the re-issue of ‘I’ & Live at Roadburn album. Some festivals are also high on the priority list, but it’s pretty challenging when working on your own and without a booker.
I personally had the pleasure to see you perform live a few times. What elements in the Wesenwille songs really shine live, and where do you think you are perhaps somewhat limited on stage? And now that Wesenwille is the product of your own, how does that work in a live environment?
I feel it’s the stark contrasts, for example in intensity and tempo, that we create are what live audiences often dig well. Most Wesenwille songs feature both slower or more atmospheric passages as well as blazing high-energy ones. Often there’s also plenty of room in between these to allow for a slow build-up to the next section. It’s not the most common formula for bands to operate with, as we do not have any three-minute songs with a single hook that bring easy gratification. I think Wesenwille asks for some more long-term immersion to appreciate fully. At the same time that is something a listener has to be into, so the music will not be for everyone, neither in a live setting or when listening to the albums.
Since ‘Wesenwille – III: The Great Light Above’ is quite a flowing album where the songs really feel like they belong together, would you consider playing the album live integrally?
I’d consider this for sure. But I’d also say it’s highly unlikely we’ll get to do this. ‘III’ is a pretty complicated album and it was definitely not written with live performance as the main goal in mind. But it’s a pretty great idea, as indeed, the album was written to be experienced as one continuous piece.
The band was formed back in 2013, but it took until 2018 before the debut album was released. You have not chosen to release a demo or EP prior your first full-length album, plus, it was released through a decent label right away. Can you tell us a bit about the first steps of the band, how did things come together and how do you look back at those formative years?
Regarding the label (Redefining Darkness Records), Thomas Haywood heard the first album as it was being mixed by his friend JB, and he immediately offered to release it on CD. We were captivated and flattered by his enthusiasm and decided to just go for it! I’m still very content that we made this decision, Thomas has continued to be a strong supporter of the band throughout its, by now, more than ten years of existence. Yet it’s difficult to organize things and promote the band in Europe when the label is located in the States. So, signing with the French LADLO for the next albums made a lot of sense as well.
Looking back, you have managed to release three albums in the span of only a few years, is there anything that you are particular proud or content with?
This fact alone is something I’m very proud of. Before Wesenwille I had never released more than one full-length album with the same band. Now there are three, with each released as stunning vinyl editions, in addition to the great digipaks. The degree to which these final products present strong continuity in their musical and visual themes is a very satisfying thing to me.
Wesenwille has sprung from fertile Utrecht soil, this city proving to be a veritable breeding ground for various Black Metal bands. How do you look at this? Do you feel part of this scene?
At times, certainly! There have been multiple occasions on which we showcased the variety of extreme metal bands that Utrecht has to offer. The most recent was last year’s Doomstad XL edition in Tivoli Vredenburg, where we played alongside Ggu:ll, Verwoed, Laster and Terzij de Horde. We all go back quite some time, sharing different projects and meeting up at similar concerts, rehearsal spaces and the like.
You yourself are still active in various bands from the Utrecht metal scene, both as a permanent band member and as a live session musician. Can you take us into your world of musicianship in your other musical escapades?
While most of my efforts go towards building Wesenwille, I do try to keep active with plenty of other projects. I’d say my main one is not purely band- or even metal-related – it’s playing the cello. I picked up this instrument later than the guitar, but it’s become my absolute fascination in the last eight or so years. With Verval, which is my studio project together with W.D. (Laster, Freja, Mystagogue & more) whom I know from the years we spent in White Oak and Sea of Trees, we try and incorporate the cello as a more central building block of the atmospheric black metal-oriented music. The second full-length Verval album is being mixed as we speak, so look forward to that! The cello can also be heard on Wesenwille’s third album, but more as a supporting as opposed to a central instrument. In addition, I perform live with Freja, Sterveling and Wrang with some regularity, each of which gives a wholly different live experience than Wesenwille does. So it keeps things pretty varied for me, which is good.
You’ve mentioned that you are already working on new material. Anything you can share about that? Is there something specific you are aiming for when recording the new album, a certain progression, element or direction that you’re trying to incorporate in the new music?
What I can mostly share on the new material is that there is currently a lot, if not too much of it, haha! I’m thinking in the direction of recording a full-length album (you guessed it, ‘IV’) and perhaps an EP as well, which would be a first for Wesenwille. The musical direction for the album is quite clear. It tinkers with some musical concepts from ‘I’, ‘II’ and ‘III’ and brings new ones as well. The potential EP might give some room for extra experimentation, which I think it’s a great format for.
With Wesenwille, we can expect the new album soon, what about your other bands? Is there any news on the horizon there?
I’d hope to start recordings of the new album this year, but I’m by no means in a hurry. ‘III’ came out only last year. Other than that, we’re working on finishing up the second full-length for Verval! More news on that down the line. Finally, I’m excited that 3/4ths of the Wesenwille live line-up (Y., D. and me) will be performing with Wrang as they join the upcoming tour with Misþyrming, Darvaza and Helleruin later in 2023.
I think that’s all from us for now. Thank you for taking the time to answer all our questions. Is there anything you would like to add?
Thank you for this very elaborate interview and, not to forget, for taking the time to dive into a great triple album review for Wesenwille. Cheers!
