Apparently out of nothing, at least to me, came Zwart. A new band that hails from the furtile (yet pitch black) breeding grounds of Tilburg, The Netherlands. The band might be new but consists out of a number of experienced musicians who have or had a past in bands like Ibex Angel Order/Funeral Goat, Sauron, Verbum Verus, Bunkur, Zelfhaat and Abysmal Darkening to name just a few. With their by Zwaertgevegt released debut album, ‘Heem’, they served us with a compelling but also challenging listen, clearly an album that has a lot to offer both musically and conceptually. So, reason enough to ask K.Zwart and L.Zwart, both seasoned scene-veterans, some questions…
Hi there, as a devoted and enthusiastic follower of our native Dutch (Black) Metal scene, it is of course inexcusable that Zwart has not reached our pages yet, so: welcome to The Whispering Darkness! Let’s start at the beginning, despite feeling fairly well-versed into our national Black Metal scene, Zwart came fairly out of nowhere for me, can you tell us a bit about the motivations for starting this particular band?
K.Zwart: Zwart was born out of the ashes of Abysmal Darkening. In that band we were always searching, but never really finding the right way to express our spiritual ideas and feelings. We had some intense talks, in which a very clear picture formed of how we could express precisely that which always eluded us. This picture became Zwart. I feel this music is the perfect representation of my spiritual beliefs, and the lyrics, visuals, artwork, everything fits into it.
L.Zwart: We went to different stages to get to ZWART, not only with the music and lyrics, but the whole concept, artwork and way we want to present ourselves. It also means you are starting a new band, although you already write and release music for almost 20 years together. The result is a band and an album we do not doubt in any way, anymore.
Now that ‘Heem’ has been out for a few months, it might be a good time to look back a little. How do you look back on the whole process of writing, recording and releasing this album?
K.Zwart: Writing and recording was at times excruciating, a lot of rearranging and discarding of riffs or whole songs, rewriting lyrics and even re-recording and remixing and remastering the whole thing. To see it released precisely how we wanted it to look and sound felt like giving life to a part of my soul, and also having it released on vinyl fills me with pride.
L.Zwart: We never before spent so much time rerecording and remixing and finding the right way to express what ZWART is. Abysmal Darkening released 2 albums with a lot of good ideas, and a decent final result, but this time ‘decent’ was not the aim. We wanted to put out an album in a way we do not regret anything after 10 or 15 years.
Not that I regret any other releases, but this time, issues like the mix being too weak, the bass not hitting the right levels, the dynamics of the drums being stuffed or the graphics not telling the right story etc. etc. This was not an option.
Personally, I feel this is the first time in 22 years of releasing music, all the effort on the mixing, mastering (with T.T. from Abigor), made us release an album of which we will never regret the final result. We had the digital master done with Devo (Endarker) because with T.T. we mainly focussed on the vinyl mastering. And than, at the end, we could also compare the audio coming from 2 totally different sound enigneers.
In one of the short conversations we had leading to this interview you mentioned that you wanted to talk about the creation of ‘Heem’. It was quite special and even personal to you, right? Can you tell something about the coming about of Zwart as a band and ‘Heem’ as its first product? Even the name, Zwart is the Dutch word for ‘Black’, has a special meaning, right?
K.Zwart: It is a deeply personal album, as you will read in my next answer. Zwart as a name is a perfect fit for this band, in all its aspects.
You also wanted to discuss the conceptual background of ‘Heem’. Can you take us with you into the world behind the album? What is the album about exactly?
K.Zwart: Heem, the word, means home. But home in a broader sense. The home of your ancestors, the place where your soul feels at home, the soil that feeds your roots.
The last few years both Femke (bassist and my wife) and I have been studying and practicing a local form of heathenry. This, to us, was like discovering a piece of ourselves that was missing, or at least buried deep beneath the social conventions and rules we were raised with. This awakening to our heritage, the hearing of the voice of our ancestors and their gods has had a profound impact on our life.
When forming Zwart there was no doubt as to what I wanted to convey in my lyrics and the music. The album mostly deals with the connection I feel with the place where I live, with the bronze age grave mounds close by, and all the history that is here. It a deals with local mythology, ancient gods and the connection between mankind, the gods and the spirits of the dead.
Finally there are two songs that deal with the loss of a few close friends and family members, being ‘Uit de Ziel’ and ‘Ravenkloof’.
If I compare the overall sound of Zwart to the bands you are (or were) all active in, it almost sounds like a kind of grand finale in which basic Black Metal elements come back as well as a good serving of lingering Doom Metal. What were the musical starting points for Zwart?
K.Zwart: We all have a background in Doom and Black metal, so this naturally shows in our music. When writing we don’t go for any specific style features or structures. Where in the past we let the mind determine our music, in Zwart the riffs and melodies come directly from the soul. If that means that some melodies remind the listener of the melancholy of Doom or some riffs are filled with all the raging chaos of Black metal, so be it. If a song were to call for something more inclined to folk or even psychedelia, we shall weave this into the fabric of Zwart.
L.Zwart: In addition, finding a way to express our style, we came to Dutch Dark Metal. ZWART is not pitch black. It is a bit grey. It is dark. It is bleak. This is a detail which is important to the concept and sound of ZWART.
Picking up on the previous question, comparing the musical foundation of Zwart to your previous/other musical efforts, is there something that you feel that has been of significant importance to the overall musical identity of Zwart? Perhaps a feeling of unfinished business that you are now able to close in a (more) appropriate way with Zwart?
K.Zwart: In some ways it feels like a crowning achievement, to have made an album that is 100% how we envisioned it, where in the past there were to many outside influences screwing things up.
As a whole, ‘Heem’ is not an album that is very easy to listen to, in a positive sense, just making sure. But the atonal and dissonant riffs, repetitive rhythms and icy screeches all give it a very uncomfortable feel. A sort of sound that has set foot into the Black Metal scene of the last decade or so. Do you feel part of a wider musical movement?
K.Zwart: Not really. I actually feel more like we are outsiders, musically speaking. We do have a lot of bands we get along with on a personal basis and who we feel a connection to, but I wouldn’t describe that as a “movement”.
Speaking of certain movements or collectives, you consider yourself a member of a specific musical collective that evolves around some bands from the area of Tilburg (The Netherlands). The bands are not exactly tied together on a strict musical identity. Can you introduce us to this “Kwaadeind Colleftief”: who, what and why?
K.Zwart: Kwaadeind are a group of bands and artist from Tilburg that share a similar vision of what (dark) art should be. The bands sound wildly different, yet all have an uncompromising vision and approach to creating art and music. It should feel uncomfortable, it should cost something of yourself, be it blood, sweat and tears, or giving a piece of your soul. There should never be an easy way to write, and never be a creation to please others. It should always be a unique expression, not painted by numbers. Some of the bands/artists in Kwaadeind are: Ggu:ll, Gott, Antropomorphia, Nihill, Autarkh, Ulveblod, Ibex Angel Order, ZWART and Faal.
L.Zwart: Kwaadeind is a label we use to draw attention to one another too. If you see it showing up on different releases, it might trigger the audience to look into the other artists with the label as well. Not a new concept, but as you know, some areas have lots of different acts and this is our way to make you look into the Dark arts of Tilburg.
I’d like to take the opportunity to zoom out a little, so leaving the local Tilburg scene and take a look at the native Dutch Black Metal scene. As an active follower of the Dutch Black Metal scene for just over two decades I am always very interested in the school of thought of some of the scene veterans that I have the pleasure of interviewing… So, if you look at the scene of today and look back those twenty years, what is your opinion on our native scene?
K.Zwart: The scene today is wildly diverse, yet more connected than when I got into it in the nineties. Many bands working together, supporting each other and so on. This was NOT the case back then. These days, the Dutch scene is globally renowned for its originality on the one hand, and for raw and uncompromising old school bands on the other. There are numerous connections to other scenes internationally and many bands are touring all over the world. Although I am an old grouch and prefer things the old way, I have to say that the Dutch scene has grown into something to be proud of.
Now that you have released your debut album the obvious question arises: what can we expect from Zwart in the (near) future? If I am well-informed, you guys have hit the studios for the recordings of some new material of one of your other bands, is there anything that you can share about this already?
K.Zwart: We are continueously writing towards our second album, which is going quite well. We are also taking to the stage occasionally, which is something we would like to do more to give ZWART and HEEM a wider audience.
L.Zwart: ZWART is a “new” band on the bill. And so people need to actually rediscover your band again. This takes time. Up till now we are very satisfied with the way our LIVE shows work out and the stage presentation we envisioned. And accordingly, more gigs to promote HEEM are hopefully following soon!
The other band you are talking about must refer to us (K.Zwart and L.Zwart), recording and writing the new IBEX ANGEL ORDER album, which is an intense process, taking shape as we speak.
Alright, thank you so much for granting us some insight into the world of Zwart. If you have the idea I have forgotten anything, please take the opportunity to add it here, the last words are yours…
K.Zwart: Thanks for your questions , and for not making them the standard stuff. As for those who read these unalloyed pages….listen to ZWART!
